Reggae History Changes When You Ask Where The Women Are

Reggae is one of Jamaica’s greatest cultural exports, but the way we tell its story often leaves women blurred out or pushed into the margins. In this Breadfruit Media crossover episode with Strictly Facts I speak with Alexandria to unpack her dissertation on women in reggae and the questions that drove seven years of research: why are women so often reduced to footnotes, and what does that erase from our understanding of Jamaican music history?

We get specific about power in the reggae industry and what “gendered labour” looks like in real life: who controls rhythms, who collects wealth, and how intimidation around songwriting credit and royalties can shrink a career over time. We also name the hard parts that rarely make it into glossy retrospectives, including sexual harassment, the unequal burden of childcare when industry partnerships become families, and the legal realities of copyright in Jamaica. Along the way, we spotlight the difference between quick recognition and lasting impact, from Sister Nancy’s rare royalties breakthrough to what a moment like Koffee’s Grammy win can and cannot do for women across the genre.

Then we shift into the craft of documenting a history that wasn’t properly filed. Alexandria talks archival research in Kingston, what’s missing from institutional folders, and why oral history interviews with living artists matter. We also explore how women mentor each other across generations, how respectability politics and Rastafari-adjacent norms shape performance and perception, and why today’s wave of women in reggae is best understood through the foundation built by those who came before.

If you care about reggae, women in music, or the business of cultural recognition, press play, subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review with the name of a woman in reggae you think deserves deeper documentation.

Transcript

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Crossover Welcome And Setup

Mikelah 0:12

Hello everyone and welcome to Strictly Facts. But you know you hear a new voice today. This is a breadfruit family crossover episode with Style and Vibes. So today I am your host, Michaela, from Style and Vibes. If you have not checked out that podcast, make sure you guys check it out. I talk all things music, bridging the gap between the past and the current. Um and Strictly Facts is also produced by Breadfruit Media. And so we are fumbling. And so today, um, I know you guys have heard a lot about, or maybe you haven't. So Alexandria, I don't know how much you've told the people them about your dissertation. So, you know, so when I wrap with education runier and so she has part of our education. True. So, you know, I've aligned the studies and the creativity to get us. So met them guan. So your dissertation is about women in reggae. Talk to me a little bit about what inspired you to study women in reggae and why you made that your dissertation.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you, Michaela. It was also so interesting to not intro my own podcasts for once. So this is fun. Um, I think my listeners over the years over on a strictly fact side. So thanks everybody for tuning in to another episode. Um, they heard me talk about, I think maybe talk around it and and certainly express my love for reggae throughout several episodes. Um, I think it was a lot to do and put my mind to. So now I feel like it's finally done. I'm officially Dr. Alex. Um, and now I can put it really to the fore and and you know, just really want to share it with you all. Um, I think first and foremost, what really brought me to this study of reggae is how much reggae has meant to me in my life. I think we always talk about, you know, growing up listening to our parents', you know, music, right? We would in IKR in a KR seat. And, you know, I literally can remember my parents playing a maxi priest cassette um in our like 90-something Honda chord. Um, and those being some of my earliest memories of of reggae and of music, right? And then of course, you know, we have the berry spane sat day when we are clean and all these things. But I think for me, um what really cemented this as being what I wanted to study and spend what amounted to seven years of my life working on and writing um was ultimately that there's so much work on reggae, there's so many studies on reggae. Um, and in a lot of ways, it's gendered, right? If you were to sit here and say, Alex, name a book on Bob Marley, I could go on for hours, right? Um, in a sense, and it's not necessarily the same equivalent for women. And I think as I came to understand myself and who I am as a person and my love for history and

Why Women In Reggae Became The Focus

SPEAKER_00 3:17

for the culture, of course, and for bridging the two of them together, that was something that I really wanted to contribute to, right? I think even when we think of the reggae revival in the like 2010s, that was a very important moment for me personally, being like, here we have a generation of artists who are roughly my age, um, kind of championing and carrying forward what that sort of golden era of reggae's or you know, reggae artists were doing in the 70s and 80s. And, you know, here I am saying we have people now who are also carrying this forward. How can we bridge our understanding of the two together?

Mikelah 3:56

Over the years, what what do you think you have found that has been the most surprising?

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Ah, surprising, surprising, surprising. I think um there are a lot of moments where women are referenced, right? There are a lot of moments where women are sometimes at the footnotes of these histories without us really having a grounded understanding of their contributions. Um, I think of people like Sonia Pottinger, right? Jamaica's first female producer in many ways. And I think there's a decent amount of people who will know that that tagline, right? Sonia Pottinger, Jamaica's first female producer, but do we know the extent to which, you know, her career shaped the careers of many people within reggae who, you know, went on to lead and have amazing careers themselves, right? It's these undercurrents of support of women who are doing a lot of the work behind the scenes, in addition, right? That I think is certainly important for how we understand who we are as a people, as a culture, um, and how the can the culture continues to then move forward.

Mikelah 5:09

Why do you think that we hear so few about women in and and to your point, um, the idea of they're kind of mentioned in the footnote, historically speaking?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

I think if we even take it out of the context of reggae specifically, uh doing the like work of history telling, right, like writing history is oftentimes very gendered. I think when we uh think of the like main contributors to history, they're typically men, right? They're typically these male leaders or politicians, etc. And so very similarly to a sense in reggae, right? When that history then gets documented, it is in the sense of those, you know, m male mega artists and things like that. And I think there is this sort of like distinction between what we or something that I try to sort of embody and um describe in my work as like needing to understand what resistance looks like and the different kinds of resistance in the same way that, you know, we might say, how do we not necessarily compare, but you know, a revolution of enslaved people, right? Um is resistance in the same way that a woman might say, you know, she's gonna play sick and not go out in the fields today. You might consider them on two different levels of resistance, right? But they're still resistance nonetheless. And I think in a similar way, we have to sort of um approach that understanding of our reggae history in that sense, that it's, you know, a facet of who and what does resistance look like, um, and how that impacts the value we put on our music. I also think, you know, to add a sort of addendum to that, there is a way that the mass and very public resistance of women in dance hall has sort of also affected our understanding of women in reggae, right? I think specifically of um books by like Carolyn Cooper, one of my own advisors, Donna Hope, um, even a recent book by Patricia Saunders called Buyers Beware, looking at women, um, the politics of pleasure and sexuality and the empowerment that um women have gotten through that when we think of people like a lady saw, right? Or like a spice. Um, and while women in reggae may not necessarily be doing the that same sort of work, there is one that sort of gets heightened over the other because of the public-facingness, um, the sort of in-your-faceness, if I may, of it. And I think sort of these are all questions that affect the status of women in reggae.

Mikelah 7:56

What do you think are some of like the the through line challenges that women in reggae have really um gone through in terms of what are the challenges and have they gotten better is the question, really.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I think on one hand, we have generally this sort of uh situation where producers are often the ones who, you know, when we think of a rhythm, right? A rhythm gets created, who are the people that are um going to amass the wealth of the rhythms oftentimes. It's that sort of producer dynamic, but we have to also understand that there's a gendered vulnerability in the ways that our music industry really has created itself. I've interviewed several women in reggae, right, who have said, you know, there's been sort of like a gendered intimidation

Footnotes, Sonia Pottinger, Hidden Influence

SPEAKER_00 8:47

where they approach a producer and say, well, I did contribute to writing this song, you know, my name should be on the royalties. And they're like, me tray a thousand dollars or whatever, right? Whereas, you know, that's an immediate solution, right? A small fix, but that's not necessarily um going to carry them forward when we think of things like royalties that are overtime, right? Um, of course, I think we can't have a conversation about the challenges women face without talking about sexual harassment and how that has affected women's careers. And I think certainly another thing that is really important is the level of intimate relationships and partnerships within the industry. Um, I don't think it's it's not necessarily particular to Jamaican music that, you know, singers, artists, producers work together, spend hours together, then end up in romantic relationships, et cetera, together. But then if it becomes a time where there's a couple and they have a baby, who's oftentimes bearing the brunt of, you know, the labor, the care, work, et cetera, et cetera, for the child, right? It's usually the women. And so who then has to sacrifice potentially their careers and step away, right? It tends to not be the man. And so these I think are all just, you know, a handful of different things that have impacted women's careers. And I think the legal challenges around Jamaica's um sort of copyright laws are things that people have, you know, several scholars have talked about for years, but it's one that I think also specifically really targets women when we think about, you know, how women, you know, maybe later on in their lives tend to try to seek legal recourse. Um, I think specifically when we think of like Sister Nancy's Bomb Bom, right? Um, that is like, to me, one of the very most significant, but like few cases where we see a woman getting sort of that legal recourse to get royalties for one of her songs. There are so many different cases like that that don't necessarily come to the fore, but she is one of the few that has actually been able to do this, do so.

Mikelah 11:01

That's a lot to unpack because I I think you hit on quite a few of the challenges. And like you said, they are pretty gendered. Um, but the the one that really kind of stuck out is um the royalties and the splits of of how music is made. Do you find that women are becoming more savvy from a business perspective? Um, and how has that really impacted their ability to be successful in the industry from what you see?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, I think um, you know, we live in this digital age, right? Where there's of course a mass of information readily available at our fingertips. And so, you know, when I've spoken to some, you know, elder women in my work, and they've been like, you know, I had no idea how a contract would work, or I didn't have any idea about how royalties would work. I they they might have just like shoved this paper at me and told me to go sign it and then you know I got in the studio. We have so much available now to be like, I don't know what this word means in this contract, or, you know, sort of like ways of pseudo-seeking like legal advice via Google or whatever it is, right? That I think artists today are certainly benefiting from. And I think more than probably ever before, you see a very like concerted effort of women to own their own music, right? Um, create their own labels. Whereas before it was, you know, we I got a studio one, or we're, you know, we're going to these big sort of um labels to put our music out there. There definitely is a really concerted effort of independence and independent ownership that might not always translate

How Gender Shapes Music History

SPEAKER_00 12:48

to you being like big time and being one of the most, you know, renowned artists per se, but at least you own what's yours and you're not, you know, sort of doing what I was talking about before in terms of struggling to get royalties and what so forth.

Mikelah 13:03

You kind of talked about uh uh women behind the scenes in terms of um there are a few, but I feel like there are more there are so many. There well, there are more public-facing figures than there are those behind the scenes. And those behind the scenes are particularly relegated to jobs like event planning, PR, marketing, um, but the production, publishing, business strategy, growth, that still tends to be male driven. What do you think it would take for women to be more dominant in those particular spaces?

SPEAKER_00 13:46

I think they are working together. Um I think I might even argue that like I do agree that there's obviously a hierarchy to the sort of behind-the-scenes roles, right? That there are certainly more women and maybe like a PR, right, um, and management dynamic than VP of insert record label or something. Um, but I think of the women who are doing this work together, there's certainly a concerted effort to um work together. And those, that practice of sort of like these informal networks and cooperation, I think is something that was really foregrounded from Sona Pottinger, right? There are so many interviews of people talking about Sonia Pottinger where they call, they call it her maternal instinct, right? And her ability to produce music, support artists, um, and you know, work together in a way that feels like fair, um, for lack of better way of framing, right? And I think, you know, to to more directly answer your question, um it I think goes back to this point of ownership, right? That, you know, the more women that are particularly maybe like owning their own labels, they're owning their own music, that then generates a sort of system where women are working together um and then allowing each other to not only, you know, support one another, but then in addition, um we do see more ownership, more women in these sort of higher positions that you're trying to get at.

Mikelah 15:23

I think one thought that I had was we talk a lot about Sonia Padinger, but I'm like, where's where's the next Sonia Padig? You know? And that I think is kind of sparking something within in in this conversation that I think could be missing. And I think to your point, ownership could drive that. There are so many similarities between dental reggae Caribbean music and and hip hop. And I'm like, where are our moguls from? You know what I mean? Like, I feel like they've they've been like very similar mainstay for a quite a long time, um, and there's no turning of the guard, if you will. And and that that isn't women specific, um, but I do think that there is a huge opportunity to fill that space, particularly through ownership. So I think a lot of women like Jamaica it na shout out talent, you know, it's not short of talent at all. But I think the behind the scenes like definitely has the biggest opportunity to grow. And I think that is what is needed to see more growth in in the music from a global reach perspective, because I think the music itself has legs and no one can really deny the talent. Um, but I think there lies an opportunity to um drive the growth and not just culturally, but from a financial impact as well. Um, like I see reggae and dance hall as as a cultural export of Jamaica, you know what I mean? So why should it not be um making money the way that you know other industries are? And we can totally go off on a tangent on that before I bring it back. Um, but from that perspective, in terms of global recognition, I think every year we talk about the Grammys a lot, um, and there's always conversation around recognition. Um, very few women have won the reggae Grammy or even been nominated uh to be completely transparent. What do you think winning at that level? Um, Coffee has won Kuma from Black Woman Guru um won previously. And like that, you know, I and then I think when you think of how frequently women are even coming. I mean, I mean, the reggae to me isn't necessarily a litmus test of of the success of women in particular. What do you think moments like that really energy-wise put back into the the the culture and the growth of the music as a whole?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Yeah, that's a great question. I think while I I would agree with you, right,

Royalties, Harassment, Motherhood, Copyright

SPEAKER_00 18:27

that you know, we shouldn't use winning a Grammy as the the litmus test for you know a great artist, there there's a whole array of complications around that. Um, but I think there is a sort of global awareness that that does offer for artists. I think in this way, like Coffee's Win to me, I think generated a lot of discussion around gender, you know, in reggae in the industry where people were suddenly like, oh, coffee's the first woman to win solo. So as you said, Puma won is part of Black Huru, but um, Coffee was the first woman to win the reggae as a solo artist, or for a solo project rather. Um, but I think that the same sort of energy that we put towards this sort of global awareness because also even apply to, as we were talking about the four before, the women behind the scenes, right? I feel like we can't talk about certain events and um very critical moments within our culture without being aware that people oftentimes like uh Sharon Burke of Solid Agency, you know, coordinated them, right? Ronnie Tom Tomlinson from Destiny Media um coordinated um things like Budja's Long Walk to Freedom tour. There's a particular way that I think the Grammys allows for global recognition. But I think we within ourselves need to sort of capitalize and um certainly just be more aware of these moments that go viral, right? But it's not just, oh, the artist put this on himself or herself, right? Um, there are so many hands behind what goes into this work that I think the Grammys is a quick one, right? The Grammys might be the easiest one, but it's not the end-all be-all. And we sort of need to be looking at ways to diversify our understandings of how we value um and capitalize on these things.

Mikelah 20:27

So tell me a bit academically, how did you approach your dissertation? Like what was your strategic approach of what you wanted to include? Um, for those who have never done a dissertation, can you tell me a little bit more about that process and and how you were kind of uh writing and thinking about how you wanted to present women in reggae as as part of your academic completion?

SPEAKER_00 20:56

So there are years where I have to like actually take classes first and I'm not fully writing the thing, right? So um this is sort of like much later in my academic career, but I think one thing that was really important to me was to, I'm I'm a historian by trade, right? And so one thing that was sort of my first immediate step was to go to the archives, right? And so I spent a lot of time in the national library in Kingston, um, even going through like archives at Tuff Gong, et cetera, and seeing what was there. Um, and not only what was there, but also sort of paying attention to what was missing, right? And so I remember like even going into the national library and telling them I'm trying to do this project and um, you know, what what is here, right? Like what is, and when I say what is here, I mean sort of like in terms of like newspaper clippings or just, you know, random things that they've saved throughout Jamaican history. Um, and again, there is a massive wealth on male artists and then these sort of like very limited folders on women, right? That are often limited to, you know, one or two um um newspaper articles that somebody saved and these things like that. Um, so I think from there, and you know, in a lot of ways, because a decent number of these women are still living, I was able to contact people um and conduct oral histories with them where I was able to ask them about their experiences, not just, you know, as artists, but more so how it's impacted their lives, right? Um and, you know, had to then transcribe that. It's a whole thing to go from actually, you know, contacting a person, them agreeing to do the interview, transcribing, as, you know, I'm sure we can all imagine um transcription takes a really long time, especially if we're in a vibe and we're talking in pattwa because there is no way that the AI or whatever somebody else would suggest me to use for, you know, the transcription is going to catch how how we speak in that sense, right? And maybe I guess it might do a little bit better now. You know, they're working on pattwa and all these different things in the AI, but um it was a sort of important for me to sort of do those things by hand and catch the moments where, you know, somebody goes, uh-uh, like I know so it I I know so it did go right. And that's not something that to me AI will understand because I understand what that means in a particular way. What else was a part of my project? I did a lot of work in terms of sort of what scholars might call close readings or textual analysis. And what I mean by that is me sort of um taking various songs and lyrics as important text um and how they document moments within our history um and also using that to like draw parallels, right? And so for instance, one of the things that I do in that's my fourth chapter um is bringing together songs thematically and seeing how these themes have either evolved over time or um you know shaped and you know have become very critical in terms of the work of that women do in reggae. And so for instance like I think um Carlene Davis has a song called Ism Schism that I sort of point to in very in a very similar aspect to several songs, but you know, to take it to like a more recent um artist Leela Ike has a song called Wanted right I use sort of those two songs um for our conversation today just to sort of point to the ways that like violence um within our communities shapes and impacts women particularly right and I think in both of those songs for instance and they're several decades apart at that right are really undergirding the challenges that women face not only in their families um but also in communities where you know we have to worry about violence, gendered violence, um intimate partner violence, for instance, right? There are all these different dynamics and I think one that was sort of one of my goals through that sort of close reading is to sort of bridge parallels and talk about how women's music has really evolved um and what things have sort of become more ingrained and more popular overall.

Mikelah 25:24

You said a whole lot and I'm glad I wrote my notes uh the one comment I think is around not enough archival work around women. So for me as a journalist, podcast host who talks about these things, I'm happy that I I actually will be part of a future archive uh because I have so many conversations. So hopefully when this is studied years from now um it will resonate. So I'm excited to be part of that history. Um and you mentioned contacting artists for um oral history can you share who you spoke with yeah of course okay um some of the people who I spoke with include like a Norma Fraser right Susan Cadogan um in terms of sort of like early women in the genre who to me spoke to their experiences at length.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

I think one thing I oftentimes think about when I think of Susan Cadogan is that um in the early 80s she had this song called Hurt So Good that was immensely popular on local radio, right? And she's flying out to the UK to do shows and

Ownership And Women Building Power

SPEAKER_00 26:37

all of these things but then ultimately like keeps her job she was working at the time at um Yui's library and keeps her job at UI library and is just like oh hey guys I'm gonna take a month off because I have to go do these shows in London right um but then comes back and goes back to her job because in a very earnest sense these are going back to the point that I made about some of the financial challenges right of you know I know some artists today that still do that. So exactly right they they just got a head start on right and so I think like that to me are unforgettable in the sense of just like being able to carve that story out and say what that means not just for this you know one individual person, right? But how it sort of um exemplifies these sort of greater structural issues that we're understanding for women within the genre.

Mikelah 27:32

As you were doing this research like did anything like really surprise you um I think the surprises came from the moments where women talk about how other women have been very supportive of their careers, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Because I think that's not an immediate question that always gets asked. I think it goes back to this like women are competition, whatever, whatever thing and you know, we have a clash culture and uh you know this yawan betaran this yawan as an artist etc etc but to hear women talk about and especially like you know intergenerationally specifically right where um you know women today have been like you know Marcia Griffiths pulled me aside and said that she loved my set and did all these things right those moments I think are really particular and something that I wanted to capture because it's not always this story that we get that women are against each other, quote unquote, right? Women are certainly doing the work of mentorship, of alignment, of working together, of collaboration, cooperation. And I think that's something that we need to support and uplift more.

Mikelah 28:45

I love that I I think what what is interesting about that is sharing experiences is important. And I think that there is this negative narrative around women can't work together when we see pods of women I I think that the emphasis from media standpoint is always on the negative and I think it kind of fuels the fire a bit rather than focusing on the the positives that really kind of come into play from a content perspective in terms of the the lyrical content how has their like femininity really played a role in how they approach the music that they put out I mean we see the sensual right up to the rangy and everything in between. So would love to hear your thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yeah I think it's one that certainly has evolved and changed over time, right? When we think of women like the i3 who that brings me to a whole nother point because they get often pitted as just the the backup singers to Bob Marley and the Wailers and they were so much more. And for those who are unfamiliar the i3 comprised of Rita Marley, Judy Moa and Marcia Griffiths um and they were all women who had careers and were doing music from even before they joined the Wailers right but I think to get back to the point of you know femininity and sort of presentation there was a point that was sort of black power in a sense of course right when we see the colors that they adorned right the African prints that were part of their performances oftentimes but it was still sort of living within a sort of respectability politics if you will right the skirts are um you know such length and all of these things which I think gets complicated based off you know Rastafari and how Rastafari views gender and views women oftentimes um but I do definitely see an evolution today where you know it is acceptable to be um you know as you were saying sensual right it's okay to embody a sort of dynamic that I think is a little bit different than you know what was seen in the 70s and 80s. I think the interesting thing about today's generation is for people who are my age and you know similarly who maybe love reggae right but you also grew up in a dance hall dominating ethos right so there is this sort of dynamic for I think the women today where they're like I can do both like or or really saying like why can't I do both right I can be political in my music I can um uphold these certain dynamics or these certain beliefs or whatever. And that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm quote unquote less than because my skirt is such length or um or it has to be to my ankles for me to be seen as important or valued, right? I think there's a little bit more fluidity that we see today. And I think that's something that I I certainly believe is in credit due to the sort of dance hall generation.

Mikelah 32:05

I think that's interesting and you you kind of touched on one point and I I think I'm thinking about it now because I'm reading this book How to Say Babylon so it's right here. Yes and I think that book in particular is really about the views of women from the perspective of a devout Rastafarian family. How do you think that that conservative view of women also widely do you think it it's a thing where the culture is reflected in the music or the music is pushing a certain culture and I don't know that I have an answer or a thought but it just it's it was a thought in my mind I've never really thought about how the beliefs and views I I mean the the the music that we've heard has been so positive in terms of the consciousness and like the way that they kind of enshrine a black woman

Grammys, Global Visibility, Unsung Teams

Mikelah 33:18

in the music versus the actual practice does it I don't know if you know where I'm going with it.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

No I understand your I understand what you mean I think I don't know if I fully have an answer either but I think the connection between reggae and Rastafari is one that is sort of getting at what you're getting at right that like Rastafari comes up within the 30s um we see reggae then sort of as like a cultural offshoot or however you want to frame that as a result of these belief systems and practices that we have right and so it's inherent in a sense that the beliefs of Rastafari are then going to sort of impact some of the presentation of reggae and I think that's sort of maybe where I'll take a middle ground answer. I will say though that like in terms of Jamaican culture on a whole right there have been a lot of changes in terms of just this view of respectability right there was a time not too long ago actually where you know if you have locks you can't even get to work type of deal and it's like Jamaica is the birth of of Rastafari and we're you know sort of from a hierarchical perspective perspective kind of bringing down these labels on people for their beliefs for their presentation I think that has certainly been something that's changed and or and is still changing right it's not 100% by any means but that's kind of how I I frame this understanding that as we are still evolving as a people right I think that sort of similar idea of beliefs and practices then continues to impact how the music is changing right so you can have people today who are an embodying you know a reggae ethos that may not necessarily be practicing Rastafari, but they believe in the sort of black power of it um in the the consciousness raising of it and able to sort of move in and around and about um the music in that sense.

Mikelah 35:36

Yeah I definitely think as as a country conservative values and respectability politics have always kind of been at play. It might even be some say an offshoot of colonialism and it is being able to I would say so it's the British fault.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Not that you know not that we should only like have standards that yeah come from but that but also it's it's in part on us to change and evolve from that.

Mikelah 36:05

So I won't say it's only them but them did start it so well it's in I I say in part because I think even as a people as a community have standards and as a community you have a collective belief system that that allows for you to live together. So it's not that by any means we as a people didn't have standards before um but they they all often shifted with the impact of colonialism and there is almost like that that next layer and and they don't talk get talked about separately and I I I think that um that is important to really understand the music and it's like a lot of people from the outside looking in can't see how how how reggae and dance hall can sit in close proximity because if Jamaica not run nothing it runs time on peace and there's a time to be serious and a time to be conscious and there is a time to brook and both have significantly paid their dues to being respectable in the society as a whole and that respect really came from its global growth. And so to me also impacts the way that we think about success as reggae and dance hall grows is because the outside gave it the validation that it like it didn't come solely from just the people um and and it took that outside validation for people to start to really respect it in a way that um either outside of the country or outside of the community right so if you look at how much like a Michael Manley really embraced you know that but he is of a different he he is of a certain part of society where you know what I mean like it's like it's not that it needed that validation but that's what amplified it in a way you know what I mean like I I think it's so tricky

Archives, Oral Histories, Reading Lyrics As History

Mikelah 38:17

to really talk about and it's exciting to kind of have this discussion with you.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

Um but I I I think it's also interesting from a historical perspective why why is this important why now why did you want to do this beyond the personal connection to to the music what do you see is its importance in the historical reference to how people and societies view our music and our culture at large yeah I think um for me it's primarily two things right I think firstly we are in a time where there are so many thriving women in reggae between you know Ajana and Alila Ike um Sebana Jazelise Naomi Cohen right like I could keep going and of course we can't forget our like late 90s earlier 2000s so Queen Ifrika um Etana right like I think that mass to me is very special um and one that I think we can't fully understand the impact of without understanding the women that came before them right and I think that part gets sort of to my second impetus for this project is wanting to really um understand how things like power and belonging impact our society right that like a lot of the work that I spend writing on I'm I'm labeling it in terms of sort of gendered labor that happens, right? That, you know, we can't forget the fact that you know while Bob Marley was an immense figure within himself right the reason we have the Bob Marley Museum for instance is because of the work that Rita did in terms of his estate and then you know wanting to move it from just being one of their homes to um like one of the most iconic places to visit in terms of like tourism within Jamaica right these are all different aspects of the story you know some people and I think us as like implicit Jamaicans may know, right? But from like a more global perspective is largely under discussed or not talked about. And I just think you know being able to pair these understandings of power, of creativity, of the gendered labor that goes into some of this work while also understanding that you know the women today are still navigating some of the challenges that the earlier women faced, it helps us to round out our story about who we are as a people and you know further helps us to decode what work still needs to be done. And so that's ultimately you know what I aim to do as somebody who as you said right loves the culture I think my life story would be incomplete without it and that was just sort of one of the ways that I wanted to give back to it.

Mikelah 41:24

Love that that is the perfect place to end well thank you Alexandria this was uh an amazing experience I always enjoy talking to you about music and you give me lots of history for gonna look fun no um you know the thing um I I I'd love to hear more about your experience in Kingston doing that research as you were looking at the library and at Tufgan I think that that is so interesting.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

So um if you have pictures please share with the people then yes yes but I mean I'm giving myself a little break for this summer because it's been a long chance. Yes. But my hope is to be st to start working in public and as you said putting the things up online and stuff soon. So um everybody give me a time you know mid she soon come but she'll not tell you what time this is no we're not telling what time but this is the first time I've actually like getting an an academic break. I'm like oh I'll never go back to school again. Great. So give me a little time but um the the hope is that all of this will be out soon for you all to check out as well.

Mikelah 42:38

Awesome. So you guys uh of course you know continue to listen to Strictly Facts uh uh on in future episodes thank you for having me um so if you like strictly facts also listen to style and vibes please untang yes yes um so thank you for having me as a guest host today on Strictly Facts yes thank you for um being my interviewer today Michaela um as she said guys for our you know my strictly facts family tuning in um if you like this episode if you love the reasoning with Michaela because one thing Bowie

What Comes Next And Closing Thanks

Mikelah 43:17

if we if we decide for get and record a podcast we could I go on and on so this really could have been several parts but I certainly recommend wholeheartedly y'all tuning in to Style and Vibes if you haven't already um the breadfruit media family is very big very strong um very collaborative and we always work together so this was a joy to have you on strictly facts um check out styling vibes and you know I always hope that you guys enjoyed this episode so till next time look more