The Style & Vibes Podcast
The Style & Vibes Podcast
Keeping Up With Dancehall: A Listener's Perspective
Building from our last episode on keeping up with new dancehall I invited listener and filmmaker Mikey T to join us in a continued conversation where he shares from his perspective on the transformation of dancehall as a genre.
We discuss:
- The "money pull-up" phenomenon has DJs prioritizing the preferences of big spenders rather than introducing audiences to fresh sounds
- How changing media consumption has affected lyrical complexity. In an era of shortening attention spans and algorithm-driven content, the intricate wordplay that once defined dancehall legends like Bounty Killer and Vybz Kartel feels increasingly rare.
- Modern tracks often lack the storytelling richness that connected deeply with listeners, replaced by repetitive themes that perform well on short-form platforms.
We're degrading the changes, but exploring how technology, economics, and cultural shifts have reshaped Caribbean music, while speculating on fascinating possibilities for the future. Could we see a return to gatekeeping as a positive force? Might artists start withholding music from streaming platforms entirely, making live performances the exclusive way to experience new material?
Style & Vibes: Website | Newsletter | Youtube | Twitter | Instagram | Facebook
Produced by Breadfruit Media
Welcome to the Style and Vibes podcast. With me, Makayla, I'll be giving you the inside scoop on music, fashion, culture and more from Caribbean celebrities and tastemakers across the globe, pushing our culture with authenticity and, of course, style and vibes.
Speaker 2:Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Style and Vibes podcast with yours truly, Mikaela. If you are new here, welcome to the family. If you are coming back, welcome family. And I am joined by the extended family, carrie Ann Reed-Brown. You guys know her as the executive producer for Style and Vibes and she was just on our last episode. So this is kind of like a continuation of that, because we had so much to talk about with music discovery, especially keeping up with the new music, and we were kind of discussing it from our perspective and wanted to bring in our good, good friend Mikey T Wagwan. Mikey T. So Mikey T has been on the podcast before he joined us in the commentary on the One Love movie. He is a filmmaker himself. We've had reviewed his documentary A Jamaica Story on Reels and Rhythms. Quick plug for that podcast, that with me. I'm Kerri-Ann Reed Brown. If you have not already subscribed, make sure you guys go subscribe to that and check out Jamaica's story. But welcome Mikey T to the Stylin' Vibes family.
Speaker 3:Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, ladies, for having me Music. I love it. I love it. It's interesting. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So you had almost like a preview of that episode that we recorded and I know that you and Kerry, you have to give us the insight because we did not talk in the community, but we know you have a little more insight to the conversation. So, kerry, kerry, all right, so quick back story.
Speaker 4:So I asked the community how they felt about you know, like when they reach a certain age, like what aspects of the culture that they are evolving, away from not totally giving up. And I did a poll and then when I posted the results of the poll, that most people were kind of, you know, moving away from music, mikey T replied and said we have a whole world of comment about people who have issue with music and the music is slack. And I said you know what, you're not going to get the argument from me there, because the argument that the music now of today is too slack doesn't, it just doesn't live. You know we can rebut that argument in so many ways from 1980 to now. So, but I said it was a little bit more nuanced than that and you know, I know Mikey T has a lot to say about that. So that's really the cliff notes of that conversation.
Speaker 2:So in your perspective, Mikey, from the commentary around the survey itself to listening to our podcast and the conversation, Tell me about your thoughts on today's music coming out of dance hall and kind of your understanding in terms of discovery and what do you think as a consumer and a lover of the culture. What is happening there?
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, that's a tall order, but I have my notes here, but I think dance hall music, for the most part, is exactly where it needs to be, and I think a lot of people forget the anthropologic part of music, where a lot of people are telling their stories and telling their realities. I think what tends to happen, though, is when the growth of music going from okay, this is where I came from. Now I'm going through this transition what does that music look like? Staring away from the struggle, staring away from the one shirt and the one shoes and mommy hungry and stuff like that. How do we grow the music to where we feel just as good, listening to the positive side of music, and I think that's where Dancehall is missing what reggae has captured.
Speaker 3:Yes, we understand you have come from the struggle, but at some point, brother, when I see you at 10 different parties with $5,000 coins in your pocket, you can't keep telling me, say you're struggling and you can't be chopping that much money and Mocha hasn't picked you up yet is a disconnect into where. Telling a story of my reality to then glorifying a situation, that is wrongdoing. I get it. You may have come from X, y, z, and we need to have that conversation and that's why I said like, even when it comes to scamming, songs which a lot of people aren't OK with, I always ask to take. And when my friends send me music, I'm like, are you speaking of something that you grew up seeing or are you trying to glorify and trying to make some quick sales? Because one of the things that tend to happen and you guys spoke about, like the discovery of music, when you went to the party and the DJ would play some new music and test out the crowd and you say, oh, what song is this? And conversation starts to bubble about music. But one of the things that tend to be happening I'm not sure if it's here in the diaspora as much, but heavy in Jamaica DJs are going to certain parties and they don't care whether they get paid or not, because they are playing for the money pull-up.
Speaker 3:And the money pull-up isn't going to come from the new artist being played. The money pull-up is going to come from the chopper song. Because when you play the chopper song, a chopper is going to come and he's going to put a five thousand, he's going to put a ten thousand dollar on your council and then, when that chopper put ten thousand dollars on your council and then when that chap will put $10,000 on your council, hear the DJ why. Man just come drop $10,000. Next one has to reach, and you don't know what money is reaching there.
Speaker 3:And then you hear it why US touching the council $100 US for money, pull up. So now nobody is thinking to come to the council unless they have a hundred US or more. And they're creating this environment where they're trying to just make their money. They're not trying to spread the love of music, they're trying to get paid in a way that they feel is substantial to them. So I think that's where life is. We're running down the money because we want to live the lifestyle and we're forgetting the part of it is the art and the music.
Speaker 4:You said something there that I think Mikaela and I we've talked about what dancehall is missing and we can't say hip hop is missing. Some of that too.
Speaker 2:Right I was about to say it's not just dancehall, Our genre right, it's across the board. I even watched a TikTok today that was asking about where is the happy Afro beats music? Yes, yes, yes. So it's a trend across. Black music that is popular. And Mikey T, go ahead, Carrie. I want to come back to that point. But, Carrie, go ahead.
Speaker 4:No, it's to that point right. Remember, in hip hop you had the Fresh Prince and Jazzy Jeff character In dancehall. You had the Snaggapos, you had the Professor Nuts. You know you had those who were comedians but were, you know, creating music, and you don't have that anymore. You had like, okay if you wanted to hear a song. You don't have that anymore. You had like, okay if you wanted to hear a song, right, you know you had your snaggle poster, if you want. You know you have your pie pie, you have your gun tune, you have your girl tune, you have all these other things.
Speaker 4:And you know that diversity you know we feel like is no longer there and that diversity came together through what Rhythms? Right, so on one rhythm you go have a tati and then you go have, you know Gwango, beria did, and you know Agodon, and we kind of miss those critical ingredients and that's kind of one of the reasons why people are nostalgic and they're like music no good. And I'm not saying good music, non-gopliya either. We've already established that. But you're right, like the different types of music, the happy, the fun aspects of music.
Speaker 2:And even the differentiation between the artists on one rhythm. Right, because if you have 10 schema artists on one rhythm, they all sound the same. 10 schema artists on one rhythm, they all sound the same the contents, the lyrical flow, the content of what they're saying, and just the melodic. So there is no need for a rhythm if they all sound the same. There's nothing distinct about each artist on a rhythm where they all sound the same, where they all sound the same. And I think that's why when Russian resurged his rhythm and there was a variety of people, almost like a competition, trying to be on the rhythm, it was because, one, it was nostalgic. Two, every artist was giving a completely different energy.
Speaker 2:So to your point, carrie, I think the idea of rhythms from a popularity standpoint can still exist, but as a producer, you need to voice variety. But, mikey T, you brought up a really good point about money pull-up. I mean, it's not like money pull, but there was also, there was still variety in that pull-up. And the other idea behind money pull-up is because it's not necessarily that that song is good, it's just what the person with the most money wants to hear mm-hmm Right, that is the essence of it and that is the essence of it Right, and sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not so you know, majority of the time the person with the most money.
Speaker 3:Especially when you go into the local parties and the local scene, the person with the most money tends to be the person who is who is the chopper. Was the chopper? Yeah, and what you? What you said in the um other episode, that was very interesting and I never paid attention to, but I do understand. It is the vast amounts of music that is coming out. The little equipment like this laptop that I have on my desk and I can buy a 200 plug-in and a 200 microphone and I can record music, I can put out music.
Speaker 3:Chronic law puts out a song almost every day, you know, and and not only a song, but he's constantly putting out songs and he's constantly putting out music videos because there isn't that gatekeeping. So even if a producer holds and cherishes his rhythm like they used to, the dancer, always be like yo bro, let me just go find YouTube and download one tune and when you know if it busts, it busts, and that's what happens to a lot of them. And then, when you guys were even talking about the clean music and Vibes Cartel being that kind of last era where people used to do the radio edits. I think, like you guys said, because there's so much new music coming out and because people want to constantly hear new music, am I going to spend time actually writing and redoing my song to make a clean version to go on the radio that nobody listens to? Or am I just going to edit whatever so that the kids can look it up on YouTube and play that version of the song? As long as it's not saying the bad words, the parents are fine and that's what they end up doing.
Speaker 3:And I guess we're running into this era where there's too much access, where you kind of sort of do need a little bit of a gatekeeper. Because I just seen I don't even know the young kid's name, but there's this young kid that was all over social media, came out with some song, did something, and I saw him post another new song and I'm just like I have no idea what this child is talking about. You can tell he's trying to regurgitate the music that he's heard and you know it's sad. It's sad when there isn't a world for everybody to be able to write a song. If Granny wake up one day, granny should be able to get on a dance hall beat and be able to sing whatever she wants to sing, because there should be that essence of storytelling and joy and fun that comes from our music. And when I say dance hall and stuff like that, I apologize. I don't mean only dance hall is doing this, but it is the genre that I delve in the most Because, like you guys said, all Black or African diaspora and African music coming from us tend to drift into this world where it's like yo, if you ain't talking about the ghetto, if you're not talking about struggles, or you're not talking about this, you're not talking about real music.
Speaker 3:And it's like I want to be happy too sometimes, like I have people that go to carnival all over. People don't want to go to the Kingston carnival as much because it's like they don't want to hear a dance hall song talking about poverty, talking about scamming and talking about guns. They go to carnival to dance, have a good time and listen to songs about just straight partying and we're kind of losing that fun aspect.
Speaker 4:I just wanted to sing Monday, tuesday, wednesday.
Speaker 2:I mean, like you know energy, know energy vibe, like that's what I want here and I I think that that's that's also a key theme is variety, because I liken a lot of the skama chapel music to the gunman tune that we grew up with. You know, know what I mean. And the slackness. The slackness has always been there, right, it's just in your face. It's very raw. So I totally understand.
Speaker 2:But where the opportunity is missed is the variety because, like Governor is an artist that has tried to bring storytelling, idonia is another one, conscience is another one.
Speaker 2:Like they constantly do a variety of galchun, funchun, patachun, chun for the Monday, like they do the variety, but it doesn't get the same response as like a skeng or a chronic law.
Speaker 2:And like, for me, chronic law, like I think he's lyrically talented but it's just too dark for where I am in my life at this point and I think a lot of the music is just, not only is the rhythm, the rhythms are very dark and very heavy, but then you couple that with the, the lyrical content and the delivery, because if you think of of mavado, early mavado, you know what I'm saying. I'm on the rock, like he's literally singing because he's in this suffering situation, but he so melodically comes out of a space and the rhythm is hard, like it's not a soft. If you think about angry or management, like we get excited when we hear that rhythm, you know what I mean. And it's not just the rhythm, it's the lyrical, verbal war that is happening, that it is also coupled with the variety Full clip till me sleep, like that's my era of variety. Go ahead, terry.
Speaker 4:But the variety has always been there. You had Gonchun Beanie. Yes, you had gun-chun beanie. Yes, you have gyal-chun beanie, really, yes, wait, bounty bulletproof forehead and head and everything but but yes, yeah, you had.
Speaker 2:A little bit more clear, clear you understand as long as you're standing there.
Speaker 4:Exactly right, you had that bounty as well, you know, and it's like there's always been variety. Like Spragas says, search out them ends and seek. That's a love song. You understand what I'm saying, but I get the love song. Like he said, if you ever see a girl in shorts or slippers looking like that, you know settersters, you can you visualize, yes, me know, the girl with the setters. I walk, you know, but like, everything is just this one um, this one tone, and it's like yo, yeah, as an artist, you have dimension, you have, you have fun, don't you? You fall in love, don't it you? You know you, you have hard times and you know, like, show that variety and what? What we're not seeing is that variety, but that's always been part of the music. Michaela knows this. Like I go back to Bount not, not Bountakila, not even being a man, the bees them.
Speaker 4:Buju Bantan, voice of Jamaica. Like you're going to go through a wave of emotions in there. You know Ima sing one PSA song about. You know safe sex. Ima sing one song about everything, something wicked. Ima sing about the poor tea Girl. You made my day. He's in love, and that's like we need that variety and that's kind of why some artists, they have that longevity, because they have a variety of music, that even when you're at a particular stage in life and you're happy, I could pull a tune from a particular artist to represent how I feel or where I am in a stage in my life, and that is essentially what's missing. You can't sing both your other song then, but if you're happy, sing a happy song, you know a song then.
Speaker 3:But if you're happy, sing a happy song. You know, crazy um, because I know you guys spoke about gage last time and all the backlash it reached for dominia. You know, and a lot of people don't remember that period of gage when he stopped bleaching and he sung pure, conscious music and then he got back the bleach because it's not popular again Because he doesn't get no bookings.
Speaker 3:He is a man who needs he had this song, Weed, money, girls, honey, house and care and land for me friends and me family. If you know one of them, then Like he had this stretch where he was just talking pure conscious music and he wasn't getting booked anywhere. And when the gays start, you know people are talking about him. So it is funny and you know, with the running funny.
Speaker 2:I think if you think about there is a simplistic like. There's this lack of understanding, complex thoughts, expressing complex thoughts through song, complex passages, reading like comprehension, wise right For younger adults, because video and audio play such a big part in the role of learning that not only is the education kind of coming down in terms of the delivery, but that also, in turn, waters down the lyrical, creative content of the songs. And I think it's something that we didn't really discuss and we have to take that into consideration because consumers are now looking for simple, easy something that is very similar. That's how algorithms really work. But it's not just TikTok, it's media, it's reading. It's like people don't read books like they used to. People don't read articles the way that they used to. Like I was talking to Carrie the other day. I'm like this article isn't even 250 words, there's so many grammatical errors and this is on like a big publication of a website, like I think that those things cannot be pushed aside. So the music is also reflecting where society is from a consumption standpoint. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 4:The music, except for Bounty Killer Vocabulary and. Ti TI. Ti, ti TI. Ti and Bounty always have some big word Me. I said where did that come from? It's fine, it's fine. Me, I don't know what that word is. Me, I don't look it up. No, I mean we're laughing, but again, you're right. No, it's true, Like they're using big words and me can't guarantee if you always hear a big word and you have to question what the word they mean. Is that a real word? Ti, I'm about to kill her. Ever go say something.
Speaker 2:we are gonna be like dictionary app come like make up words, you have to know where the origin comes from, like and the context of that. So that's why I said, like vibes cartel is kind of the last of an era to kind of lyrically play on words and flows.
Speaker 4:But then you have Vibes, cartel, cxc. You get these song texts that are English.
Speaker 2:But that's what rhyming is, that's what songs are, they're poems, they're poetic, and people forget that these are art forms that, should you know, reflect some sort of intelligence, like, if you're gonna tell a story, if you're gonna tell a bad man story, tell the story. No man, give me the visuals. But again, I'm asking for that as a person who comes from an era that that was the norm. The next generation, that's not necessarily the norm, because they're more visually driven by the, the images that they see on their phone screens or tablets or computers. There are some creative videos.
Speaker 3:I'm not gonna lie, I've seen some really good ones, but if they all look and feel and sound the same like to me, I just can't I can't, I can't get with it, but I understand it and I let the people who like it rock, but that doesn't mean I think it's good but you gotta think about it, even when it comes to vibes cartel, because, like we said, there comes a point where money has to come into play. I pay attention to everything vibes cartel does, and you know what one thing Vibes Cartel is going to do that a lot of people don't pay attention to? He's going to try everything, even if it don't work. When Tommy Lee came out and he was Uncle Demon, don't nobody remember Father Devil? Uncle Demon worked and then Vibes Cartel tried to do the song Father Devil. Yes.
Speaker 3:And people heard it and was like no, and you never heard that song ever again. And he's doing it now because I seen it, he was previewing some song. I think he did with one of his songs, since he'd been out of jail and Bob's Cartel talking about. He called somebody on his iPhone and he never get no dial tone and I was like sir, please stop, you are 49 years old.
Speaker 2:The man's phone is um top. Well, tell me.
Speaker 4:Oh, I'm not talking about Tommy, no, but remember um, what's his name from born um, born to Americans. Talked about how you know, when in link up with the Moby DJ and he start DJj in a more nasally type way, like that's the influence, than it work. You know, like you know he, he had some hits from that and it worked for him. So you're right, you know he's willing to take uh, uh, he's going to experience, yeah, an experiment, yeah, yeah I mean a perfect example.
Speaker 4:It's one of his biggest hits and he took something that every little pitney jamaica know. When they say speak gypsy, um, I wasn't one of those kids who know. My grandmother looked at me and said stop it. But stop it, yes, right, but he took something that was inherently part of a culture where, even if you don't know how to speak it, you know what it is and you put it in one song and it's his biggest chart. What is highest charting song in his in his career? You know like he was playing. You know Fever like all over the place. So you are right about his willingness to experiment.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, because you got to think about it. Like would a lot of Vibes Cartel songs make it in today's day and age? Because where would you dance to it? Tell me why. Mr Big Yard Ling, like where would that work in TikTok? I forgot which one it was, no, but I tried. When I remember I saw a video of that and I sent it to everybody I do with my age group and I'm like yo, where were you?
Speaker 3:Where was your greatest memory of hearing this Vibes Cartel song? Everybody wrote me back. It was like, oh, those were my days back when I was clubbing and you're in the club and you hear that vibe, tell them no butter. Tribe, call them no butter, hear that. But there ain't nobody that try, goddamn nobody. That. I, we, everybody, everybody. And you know that's what I meant by part of it, where music is also nostalgia, because I seen dale elliott talking about it, where when he was going to ue, when alkaline came out and he had a song After All, after all, after all, dog, just a weird pun, a car, ford, ford on the wall, like he remembers that song because at Yui, when that song played, the DJ cut off the music and everybody sung it. You guys might not know that song Me. I've been listening to Alkaline since he was in high school, still before he graduated.
Speaker 4:When he had the black eyes, when he had the black eyes before he had the black eye long before he he was.
Speaker 3:and then I remember when he did the black eye thing and and Alkaline always used to sing in his songs, when he put the black eyes in 2016 and it was 2014 and everybody's like yo, what's going on, what's about to happen? And you know, I remember being with my friends 2015, new year's eve and when, 2060, they're like Mike, you can finally sing this part of the song now because it makes sense, like you know, and there's always that magic and that nostalgia of music and people forget. There's going to be a lot of songs that come and go and there's a lot of songs from back in the days that people don't know. I know a few songs like Fab Five and you know, like those songs, and it's like I'm sure there was a lot of musicians that came out that people were like, oh, everybody was listening to it, but did it carry over?
Speaker 3:but did it carry over, yeah, and when you match, when you try to match nostalgia with everything that's coming out, especially, like you said, in a generation where more music is coming out in a month than came out in a year, it's rough because a lot of BS is going to slip through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I was telling Carrie because I was watching a podcast and I guess Lloyd Lang I guess he's on IG as Reggaeology yeah. And I was listening to his podcast. I was like yo, like he spoke about, like the diaspora bubble and like the music industry and algorithms and how you have to play more to algorithms than you play to people, which is, I guess, good in a way because there aren't as many gatekeepers, but it's bad in a way because it kind of crushes creativity because everybody's rushing to get money.
Speaker 2:So there's definitely going to be a resurgence of going back to live music in order to combat a lot, because now I talked a bit in a previous episode about like AI and how good it's getting at creating, but I think that the actual experience of creating music not just beat making, but actually playing instruments and being able to transition, like incorporate digital elements into a live show and I would not even be surprised if we get so far as to there are going to be artists who do not release their, like Prince don't release their music on any streaming platform and you have to go and see them live in order to see that.
Speaker 3:That'd be really dope.
Speaker 2:As as like a marketing, like you can't access any of my music, you have to come to my show. Like I feel, like that's a Beyonce, like that's Beyonce's next move. I'm not releasing any more albums, I have enough. You need to come and see me in person and you're gonna get all this. New clips might go around, but they're not. They're gonna be taken right down and you can't have it. And it's in this exclusive package that only the artists can distribute. I think that's where we're going, because AI is getting way too good, the algorithms. People are just tired of the same old, same old, and so the only way to get something different is to seek out something different, and I think that the next generation is going to be seeking differentiation heavily, and gatekeeping is all the way coming back.
Speaker 3:No, I think you need it, it has to come back. It has to because it's too much.
Speaker 4:Listen, listen, it's too much. This is the biggest lesson I went fly the gate gone wrong.
Speaker 3:People need that because sometimes I get some music and some yo dog listen to me new tune and you're like you needed a producer to tell you no. You needed somebody other than your dogs. That was flunking high with you and that is the problem, that they were there and that's the ghost to show you how nostalgia works, because somebody will say yo listen to my present tune and, brother, you're just happy about this because y'all had a good time making this. This is garbage.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:And I'm happy for you that you had a good time making it.
Speaker 4:But nobody. No, like I voice the tune and it's only certain people hear the tune. Michaela knows the tune. All right, it's my birthday song and nobody will ever hear that song.
Speaker 3:Listen, I did some raps with my cousin. When my cousin came up here he had his computer and things that we did and I'm like, oh yeah, never will I, ever, Never will this see the light of day. But it is fun. But there needs to be a little gatekeeping. And I always find it funny because I tell people, over the last two years I have seen the trajectory and the moves that seem to be happening with dancehall artists.
Speaker 3:So what tends to happen is you get a one song, you get a buzz. Then, when you start to get a buzz, then you start getting bookings at local parties in your parish. After you get the parties in your local parish, then you're going to get a call because they come from a lot of different places. But then you'll get a call from a couple places in Kingston. Then you'll get a call from Mobe Negril Ochi and you start to get that buzz now within the tourism. And then all of a sudden Belize, one of the smaller Caribbean islands, calls you and you see them. They're putting out music and they're going to the shows and they're constantly.
Speaker 3:You get tired of them after a while and then what happens? Boom, US visa comes in. Once the US visa comes in, they're going to hit the DC, the New York, the Florida, the Connecticut. They're going to hit these states where we are, as a diaspora, heavy. And then that's when, you see, their price goes up. And once their price goes up from the states, you probably won't hear them in that many parties in Jamaica because their price has outreached the ROI for a Jamaican party. So you'll see them at the big SunFest, You'll see them at the big Negril and Ochi and Montego Bay parties. Then Canada Visa comes through.
Speaker 2:But that's the problem, right? You can't just work one market the same way and essentially people forget. You have to do that over and over and over and over and over again.
Speaker 2:And I think that there's a lack of consistency there because they think that, oh well, I've got this price here, I'm not going to come back and do this little thing over here. And that's really not the case. You know like the work ethic has to trans, transcend. You know the price, the price right, because you'll eventually get to the price. And, trust me, all you really need in a catalog is 10 songs In order to say you're a catalog artist. That's not even a full album. 10 songs can carry you to perform until you can no longer perform anymore 10 my man homie is still going with one, with one, is it motivation?
Speaker 3:yes, yes, exactly but no, that's that. That's where music is, ed, you've've seen it. Enhance is going through it right now. Valiant went through it, skang went through it Skilly's gone through it, but Skilly's doing a little bit better than most.
Speaker 2:Well, he's getting a lot of good features.
Speaker 3:He's getting his little oh mainstream. Yeah, oh mainstream.
Speaker 2:He's getting really good features and I think that that's good for him, but he also kind of needs to drop his own hit again.
Speaker 3:He needs that next one. I need to leave my girl Shensky alone and let her experiment.
Speaker 2:I tell everybody that I think she's doing good. I think she's on a good trajectory.
Speaker 3:I think we're just getting jealous because she's leaving us.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think so. I think she kind of left a little bit, but then she rallied her own back on this album and I think she'll continue to do that. But thank you guys so much for all of the conversation. I feel like we need a part three because we had so much to talk about.
Speaker 3:But thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Mikey T, carrie Ann. Thank you guys so much for joining me on this episode and, like I always say, live tummy peeps.
