Carving Caribbean Narratives: A Deep Dive into Cultural Representation in TV and Streaming Series

In this episode we dissect how Caribbean culture is represented in series like Netflix's 'Survival of the Thickest', Amazon Prime's 'Harlem,' ABC's 'This is Us,' and HBO Max's 'Full Circle.'

We also explore the importance of having Caribbean actors, producers, and filmmakers at the helm of creating authentic cultural narratives. We talk about the subtleties of character development and the significance of filming on-location in places like Guyana to immerse viewers in the Caribbean experience. We touch on the portrayal of Caribbean accents in the media - an intriguing conversation sparked by the influence of films like 'Black Panther' and the anticipation around the upcoming Bob Marley biopic. 

Looking ahead, we offer a glimpse into the upcoming Hulu series based on the book 'Black Cake'. We discuss the importance of empowering Caribbean creators to tell their own stories, and the opportunities this presents for the broader Caribbean community. Join us in our next episode as we further deliberate on 'Black Cake' and its potential impact on amplifying Caribbean voices in the media. 

Bring home Bob Marley: One Love on Digital now! Celebrate the life and music of an icon who inspired generations through his message of love, peace, and unity.  Buy Bob Marley: One Love on Digital today and get over 50 minutes of behind-the-scenes footage and deleted scenes! Available at participating retailers. Rated PG-13. From Paramount Pictures.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:37

Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Style Invives podcast with yours truly Makayla. If you are new to the family, welcome to the family. If you are returning, welcome back family. Today, we are joined by none other than Hague Executive Producer, Carrie-Anne Reed-Brown.

Speaker 2: 0:58

Whole government, whole government, hello everybody.

Speaker 1: 1:01

That is such an inside joke that we are never going to get rid of. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 1:08

Yes, it's always good to be back. It's like home. It is home.

Speaker 1: 1:14

So both Carrie and I do a lot of TV documentary watching and we're always kind of on the watch out for all things Caribbean. So there has definitely been an increase in TV shows, movies and series that celebrate our vibrant Caribbean culture through, like strong character references and storylines. We previously discussed the Amazon Prime show Harlem with one of the main characters, quinn, played by Grace Byers, as well as the mini series Small Acts here on the podcast. So today is really focused on how TV and streaming series and networks are integrating characters of Caribbean descent. So we have a few examples and then I think for each we'll kind of discuss about how they kind of show up in each of the different series. So first up, we have Survival of the Thickest, which is a hilarious mini series because it's only one season, it's available on Netflix and it stars Caribbean American comedian, michelle Butto. She's actually of Jamaican and Haitian ancestry, so the series really talks about her experience. I feel like both her parents are Jamaican, in that I don't think that they're yes in the series.

Speaker 2: 2:44

It didn't do the.

Speaker 1: 2:47

The mixture that she has as a person in real life. But, like, it's so funny and it's really good to watch because it shows up in different and multiple times throughout different episodes. So let's talk a little bit about that. How does it really show up for her in this series and what stood out to you in the series of how Caribbean culture showed up?

Speaker 2: 3:13

So this goes back to something that I've talked about on Carry On Friends, which is being confidently Caribbean, and confidently Caribbean doesn't always mean rap your flag. It is showing up in those very authentic and nuanced ways that we operate as Caribbean folks, but it's so natural to us that we don't think it's unusual, but for other people experiencing us it's like hey, why do you do that? So I think one of the first things that popped out to me was after the situation with her and her boyfriend and she got to the club and she was dancing, my girl dropped on the you know, you know, did the bubbling pano all the way we do it all the time Basement dance style, style, you know, a juke pano, all everything, hand on the floor, foot pano, all and just a bubble. And she was just like, yes, you know, like she really was reliving our bashment days, right. So I think that was just like yes, I love that, right.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Because we've had the conversation particularly on style and vibes, how the way that we dance and we've certainly heard people like talk about Rihanna in that way the way how we dance is very sexualized. Whereas for everyone else it's sexualized, for us, like yo, if you can't bubble like this, you're not bubble at all and so for her to be in the club, I broke out, broke out, then waited. It was very Caribbean-esque. I have other ones, but I'll stop here and let you go.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Malfurilli do the dancing podcast you know Rihanna, I have to say it's so quiet. Listen. All I have to say is praise God for Jesus. There was no camera back in the days when me used to do road, when me used to have basement parties. I am so thankful.

Speaker 1: 5:07

Well, my friend said there was no phones but there was cameraman and you just run from the cameraman, the video line.

Speaker 2: 5:16

The cameraman wasn't showing up in no basement parties.

Speaker 1: 5:18

Let's just stop right there. Big dance. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 5:23

Right. So if it's a basement party, you're just glad there were no camera phones or nothing. If you go to big dance, listen the light from the camera that hit you before the actual camera. So you just use that as a cue for just.

Speaker 1: 5:36

As a cue.

Speaker 2: 5:37

And that's what I did. I there are many videos or parties that I went to is like similar. Is that you know I was hiding behind the person?

Speaker 1: 5:46

Yeah, I'd mind the money, I want to put a big but together Pretty much Totally off topic. So I think for me it was really interesting the dynamic between her and her parents, right, and how there were certain things that she was missing. So it kind of definitely resonated as a very Caribbean experience, where we don't always get to have these conversations with our parents when we are younger about how we're feeling, things we think that we missed, and as adults you at times get the opportunity to kind of revisit that and you know her parents really just explained like we did the best that we could and that for me was like a really tender moment that some Caribbean folks don't get. But if you have the opportunity to have them, I think it's important to discuss. I think that also played out with Quinn and her mom on Harlem as well. But I'm curious what were some of the other moments that you liked in the series?

Speaker 2: 6:53

I mean, I think for me it really was the parents, like there is a pull, push with Caribbean parenting, right, and so in that same tender moment was the mother to car who, all business, got church at Cassiassin and it's like a preload, you know, and meddling in the business because they have ideas on where her life and who she should marry. But on the not so serious side, when the father that, speaking of parables, she said Daddy, talk straight. Like you know, you know Korean people there's always that saying chicken, mary, hot, linear. He didn't say that, but he kind of had one of those very Caribbean as parables and she was just like Daddy, could you just talk to me straight Because you couldn't figure out what he was trying to say.

Speaker 2: 7:48

So, like the club and the relationship with the parents, I think, were the standout things and both side of that she's just operating in a regular way and I think that's important because some people might say, well, it's just two things you'll find out, but in your essence of being Caribbean, it seems everything else is normal. It's just when you call out specific interactions you're just like, yeah, that's a very Caribbeanist thing to do or to say so make I remember a much episode, but I really, really enjoyed it. It's a good series to watch if you're home and you, you know, you feel like, all right, I want to bin something. I definitely would recommend it as a series to watch Because, again, all that career struggles, I think that's human, but knowing that there's this element of Caribbean vibes in there, that's cool.

Speaker 1: 8:43

Why do you think it has become so much more prevalent and why is it important to continue down this path of cultural representation as a character development piece?

Speaker 2: 8:59

Again, we've said this in other episodes right, the agencies that black actress actors, producers, filmmakers now have. Right, they've laid a foundation and they've done a lot of mainstream things. Right. Now they have equity that they could do things that are important. Right, and now is the time for that.

Speaker 2: 9:23

There's culture everywhere and so, because they now have the agency and the power to be the creators of their content, they're going to incorporate parts of themselves into their characters because it reflects them. Right, it's just like, you know, greece in Harlem. Right, it's part of the character and it resonates, because then you're not really acting, you are, in a way, but you're bringing in elements of yourself. And the reason why it's important for them to do it? Because for so long, other people of not of the culture get to cosplay and do this and they want to do it in their own unique way. Because non-Caribbean actors who are playing Caribbean roles would have never done what she did in the party, because that's not what click when that song come on, right, and even if it would, it wouldn't have the same effect. So it's important because of just the proliferation of contents, content creators whether you're Caribbean, american, british, caribbean, like you know, we are more visible and we're appealing not only to the people of the culture, but people outside the culture.

Speaker 1: 10:35

I like that you touched on like there are subtle nuances that they probably incorporated due to the understanding of the characters and the character development. So I'm sure Michelle probably had some moments, and even Grace, where they were able to kind of improv in things that weren't in the script or adjusted on set that we really don't get to see. I think the other importance there is that the next generation who are born and growing here, they have these cultural reference pieces, at least in television, to kind of go back to. So you and I kind of grew up in a space where we didn't really see ourselves and how culture plays out here. That our kids now get to reference with all of these different platforms that have that sort of representation, all right.

Speaker 1: 11:34

So the next drama series is one that you have seen and I have not. So you are the expert the world thing. I forgot about watching the enamelist, but it is called a full circle, which is on max and it features Guyanese American actress CCH Pounder. She is known to have so many different strong roles in movies and television, but tell me a little bit about her character and the complex relationships that she has, and how does her Caribbean culture really show up in this particular series.

Speaker 2: 12:12

So I happen to come across this just watching something else on max. And so CCH Pounder, who is Afro Guyanese, is playing an Indo Guyanese character, which I was just like this is kind of weird. But it centers around a Guyanese American family and community and I'll be honest, the first episode had my head scratching. And when I spoke to my coworker who was like yeah, I watched this film and the coworker is not Caribbean and they were like yo, I had to pay attention and the reviews online kind of say that it's not a series where you just kind of watch it and you get it. There's just so many complex layers in there. What really drew me in to watch it was when I saw the clip of it. They had going back to your question, what made it very authentic in Caribbean? They did filming on location in Guiana, right. So there was a part in there where CCH Pounder's character is like send for the boys, them in a Guiana and they might come up some banul way. You know, you saw the guys that. You saw them cut to Guiana, them on a boat, pandith famous river and everything, and it was just like, oh wow, they really took it there.

Speaker 2: 13:41

And then the other thing that I think was important. If you're gonna have show around, I think let's back up a show that really centers Guyanese family and Guyanese American culture. It's not the norm. It's usually around the Jamaicans and the Trinies. So the fact that it was Guyanese centered already pulled me in and we need more of this right that. You know, the Caribbean is more me at a Jamaican, I say, but we are more than Jamaica.

Speaker 2: 14:09

So, going back to location, it couldn't be an authentically Guyanese American film if it didn't center around Queens. So the locations made them really important. So not only did they shot on location in Guiana, but they also centered a lot of it around Queens. You see, if they ended Brooklyn, I was that somebody had it wrong, but they really centered it around Queens, which is very important in the Guyanese American community. So those are very important things. And then the the idea of family and the different aspects of Guyanese culture that include, you know, like religion and like just very nuanced things that even though I'm not a Guyanese, I'm sure that I've missed some of those nuances, you know. So I don't want to say too much without confusing and twisting up the plot lines, but I think that was important.

Speaker 1: 15:09

So I have to ask, especially at this inflection point, particularly with CCH Pounder, because of the, the plot and the setting that you're kind of talking about. I'm assuming that there were some accents there. I think, michelle, it was her parents, so they weren't the the, the prime, they were the main characters they weren't the main characters.

Speaker 1: 15:36

So a lot of times when we're talking about accents, they're not always accurate, if if at all, ever accurate when actors who are not of Caribbean descent and even some who are of Caribbean descent don't necessarily get it right and it's always a topic of conversation we have it all the time with anytime anything Caribbean comes up. What do you think about? Is the accent always important, or is it more or less the plot of how, how it kind of plays out?

Speaker 2: 16:13

So accents still aren't great, but I've come to a place where accents are on a spectrum. We hear from people in my audience or audience who are Caribbean, american or kids are never going, like they're never going to speak the way I speak. It's not going to sound but they understand it right. And I've made room for people on Carry On Friends to be of Caribbean heritage but they have a straight Yankee accent. They will. They don't have a Jamaican accent or another Caribbean accent, but their parents are you understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 2: 16:51

So accent is on a spectrum, and I'm not saying people should get away with bad accent, no way or say that's not what I'm saying. What I then look at is every bit matters, right. So you can't get accent wrong, characters wrong, plot line wrong, right. You have to get the plot, the characters right, and maybe we can overlook this, which is why Jasmine Guy accent in Harlem is horrible, right, but because the storyline and the character themselves are strong, we, we give it a pass, right. But if you have all of those things poor, then of course it's going to be horrible, right, and and we're going to make noise as we should.

Speaker 2: 17:40

But then, as, as I thought about your question, I'm like did the Africans them think Eddie Murphy accenting come into America was horrible, right? The last king of Scotland, with um Forest Whitaker and Kerry Washington, did Africans think like, oh my god, this is so. Now, as we're experiencing this expansion into mainstream, you know, do we? You know, like, how did our African brothers and sister feel about the same portrayals? Right, even if it's played by black characters, right? So the point that I'm saying is that instead of looking at one thing, the accent, let's look at the totality of it, right. So if this character does are coming in and just I said, well, man, and is the random person on the road, you need to get the accent right, right. But if you're centering a character, you need to have the character, the story right at a minimum, and the the accent should be good are decent If you get all three of those chef's kiss.

Speaker 1: 18:49

I think the only way to really get all three of them is the industry in the Caribbean to really develop. I think you said something that was pretty interesting, like, did people of African heritage and descent think that the accent was horrible? They probably did, but now they have their own entire industry to where that isn't necessarily the only. And then when you talk about movies like Black Panther and like those blockbuster movies that really incorporate a lot of that heritage into the plot, lines and the accents aren't always great and we as outsiders are okay with it because it's not our native tongue, right, so we are going to be more critical to our native tongue. And I think what you said is pretty important too, because you can get two out of three and still be good enough to kind of move and evolve the space and I think that I'm also coming from that space too. Like I can kind of overlook some of the accents because they're not the worst they're. We're definitely better than you know, some of the 80s movies that I've seen with Jamaican characters and the accent is really, really bad. But it's always the question that we have. I mean, you know we're looking forward to the Bob Marley biopic coming out and that's the first thing we're thinking about. Is the accent Right, right. So I think, like those are things that are always going to be top of mind, but again you can have the acting chops and the plot line, like you get past the accent after a few sentences, as long as, like you said, it's not horrible, horrible.

Speaker 1: 20:43

I think one other one that kind of comes up in the ABC show, this is us, beth Pearson, who is the wife of Randall Pearson. She's absolutely one of my favorite characters on television. I remember someone I forgot asked the question. I think it was like on Instagram or something when did you see yourself in media or some sort of media? And I said that it was probably. This is us and Beth Pearson, because her her dad.

Speaker 1: 21:13

Really she kept going back to the memories of her childhood and her experiences with her dad and really talking about and it really played out in her character as a mom her interest in dance, her relationship with her own mom. I thought it was just such a great character for her, both her parents and Felicia Rashad played her mom. So Felicia Rashad being her mom, like you said, was super important and the accent wasn't right, but it also kind of speaks to some of the accent changes too that we kind of assimilate to when we are here. So some of that kind of feels a little familiar. So it sounds islandy but you can't really pinpoint it Because again, I'm of that generation you know where. You know my dad I've shared with you, like my dad had the experience where he kind of didn't want to showcase his accent, where my mom she really didn't care and it just came out all the time and I love the way that her character developed on that show.

Speaker 2: 22:27

So it goes back like accent is a spectrum, right, there are certain things like at the dinner or the other night we were talking about it there are some things that are not Jamaican sayings.

Speaker 2: 22:36

There we pick up some Trini things, we pick up some Guyanese things and then it become a distinctly Caribbean American thing, even though you can tell, you know, like most people will tell like yeah, Kerry, you're a Jamaican, right, but you have some sayings that you pick up because now you are in community with people of other Caribbean cultures and, like you said, it depends on how long you're here. I mean, I love this idea or conversation of accent because most people I tell them all the time I can tell where in Jamaica someone comes from by the way they speak. So it's not that all Jamaicans speak the same way. You know how an upton person's own, you know how somebody from West Milan, from Mobi, from St Thomas, from Kinston, from St Elizabeth, you know, you know, and each part have to say which one has the worst accent. But they're just like how in America you can tell when someone's from the South or someone's from New York or someone's from the Valley in California.

Speaker 1: 23:35

Boston.

Speaker 2: 23:37

Ka, you know. You know you can kind of tell the same thing in Jamaica. So accent, then, is just going to be on a spectrum. But what I loved about Felicia Rashad's character was that she understood the aspect of being a Caribbean parent, where it is less is more. So it had less to do with her accent. A lot of times it was just the look that she does, the raised eyebrow. You know, there's a lot of body language that Caribbean parents speak with right, and that in and of itself, you know, says a lot.

Speaker 2: 24:15

I loved her character as well Randall's wife because she reminded me of my sister-in-law. My sister-in-law is a sharp tongue. She said what she's after, said she know men's words, she does that. Go cut, see, you understand. And it's just her. And the common thread in the three episodes that you have is that they're all actually Caribbean American women, whether they're Jamaican Guyanese or Jamaican Haitian. So they knew how to bring that aspect in, because we flex like that every day at work, you know, like you know I'd be at work and I'd be like ah, and they're just like, yeah, I got you. They know what I'm saying. So elements of this comes out, and the reason why we love these characters is because they look like us every day Maybe not in Atamone, but it's every day. We are not caricatures walking around like Yaman and whatever right. We are going in and out of these dual roles that we're constantly playing.

Speaker 1: 25:16

So I love that. That is so perfect. You got to my next point in terms of, like, what are the common thread? That's a huge common thread in terms of authenticity, what it brings to the screen, all of the different nuances. It really plays out very well on screen for all of these different characters and series. So I think the most important thing is that there is representation there and I am looking forward to seeing even more projects. So I hope all of these fantastic works kind of continue and we continue to champion behind Caribbean stories and characters on screen, whether it be small screen, big screen, short film, all of it. I think we need more. I really want to see even more from directors and actors from the region get in on some of the action, so I'm hoping to see that as well.

Speaker 1: 26:21

So that is it for this episode. In our next episode, we are going to be talking about black cakes, so make sure you guys stay. Not just the cake, you know, but the book that is now a series on Hulu. So, on a, grab another cake and come back for the next episode. Okay, all right, kerry, tell people then bye.

Speaker 2: 26:43

Bye, everyone and listen, just getting yourself ready. We are going to talk about black cake. We have some things to say.

Speaker 1: 26:49

She have some things, so until next time, lay it on my peeps.

Speaker 2: 26:54

Bye.